Should I celebrate when good things happen to other people ... and not to me?

Sister Rejane  
This Random Nun Clip is brought to you by A Nun's Life Ministry.

Sister Maxine  
This comes in from Julie in Wyoming. And Julie writes, "I'm kind of ambivalent about the recent forgiveness of college loan debt by the federal government. After all, no one forgave my college debt, and I dealt with it. But on Twitter, there have been lots of biblical references to debt forgiveness that make me reconsider. What are your thoughts about this from a biblical and theological viewpoint?"

Sister Shannon  
Even before going deeply into a biblical narrative that I think would respond to this, I just want to say to Julie in Wyoming, that, as Christian people, we celebrate the goodness that happens in our world, and the goodness that happens to our brothers and sisters. So regrettably, this wasn't a time that it would benefit you. But how wonderful that young people today are benefiting from this opportunity. And I think it's a good call for us to celebrate with them.

Sister Maxine  
And that's a good perspective, too. Because, you know, even if this good thing may not have happened directly to us, the fact that it did to somebody else, that in itself --

Sister Shannon  
Should please us.  

Sister Maxine  
Yeah. And we should probably make a couple of points here for those who aren't familiar with what's going on here in the United States around this issue. And it has to do with loans for college that are made through the federal government. And they talk about it as loan forgiveness. Now, that doesn't mean the whole thing is just like, written off the books. What people are eligible for is between $10,000 and $20,000 of that debt being cancelled. It depends on some factors, like what your income is now, and some other things like that. It was announced in August of this year. So that's -- unless you want to go into a great deal of detail, Shannon, about the college loan forgiveness program.

Sister Shannon  
No.

Sister Maxine  
[laughter] Okay. One thing I would also add is like, Julie in Wyoming did not mention what exactly the tweets were that she was looking at, but I did look up a couple forests that might give us a flavor of that.

Sister Shannon  

Sure.

Sister Maxine  

Okay. So one says, "If you're a Christian, and you're upset about student loan forgiveness, get out your Bible and look up the year of Jubilee. Forgiving debts that someone can't pay is literally the basis of Christianity." Then, on the other hand, somebody tweets, "There's a new trope emerging. If the Bible talks about student loan debt forgiveness, then let's, yeah, go ahead and consult the book written 2000 years ago and dissect obscure passages that talk about debt in another time, and another society." And then I have to say, Shannon, one of my favorites: "I rejoice today with every single person who received some loan forgiveness, I hope that there's more on the way, and I pray every day for it, even if I never get it, because that's what Christ would do. And I would know, I have a Bible degree that cost me $40,000." That's what makes that my favorite.

Sister Shannon  
It's a very clever response. Without loan forgiveness. Interesting, the tweets and the responses to this. It's easy to become jealous of others that have a benefit that is not bestowed on us as well. And so it takes a great deal of kindness and thought and mercy celebrate with others at their good fortune and not to be resentful of that.

Sister Maxine  
Yeah.

Sister Shannon  
So I was thinking immediately when I read Julie's question about the passage, we just had it read recently from Luke at daily Mass about the vineyard workers.

Sister Maxine  
Oh, yes.

Sister Shannon  
This is a parable that Jesus took. So the vineyard workers are invited to go and work in the vineyard. Later in the day, the owner goes to get some more and sends them to his vineyard. And even the last hour of the day, he invites some men that are just standing around to go work for an hour. So as you can imagine, he pays them and he starts with those that only worked for an hour, and he gives him a full day's wage. So I think the people that had worked all day are rubbing their hands together thinking, "Oh, boy, how much am I gonna get if this guy gets a whole day's wage?" And they get the same wage. And they're pretty resentful. And the owner of the vineyard says, "Why are you upset because I'm generous?"

Sister Maxine  
Although I can understand -- the other people, you know, they've been sweating all day. But I would say, in the end, you know, the whole generosity thing. That's a good thing.

Sister Shannon  
I think that's a message at least that Jesus is attempting to share with us.  

Sister Maxine  
It's taking nothing away. If I'm the worker that started at the beginning of the day, it's taking nothing away from me.

Sister Shannon  
He got exactly what he was told he would be paid for a full day's wage. And he's just a little upset that somebody who didn't work as hard as he did got the same amount. That's the thing we struggle with in so many areas of our lives, I believe. We notice that somebody got something that we didn't, or someone got a raise, and we didn't get the raise, or they have a nicer office, or they have a better computer, all of those things. And we wonder there's the even the phrase, that's a part of our English language, keeping up with the Joneses, right? We want what other people have, and perhaps the message is to be happy and satisfied with the gifts we have received.

Sister Maxine  
And that's not to say we can't be mindful of the times when there might be something unjust that happens.

Sister Shannon  
That's right.

Sister Maxine  
You know, it's not to ignore that. I think what you're saying, Shannon is it's to celebrate when things go well for other people, and we may ourselves feel like we should have deserved that too. And maybe we did. But the fact is, if a good thing happened to us, we'd celebrate. If it happens to somebody else, why not?

Sister Shannon  
It's the ancient question of why good things happen to bad people. And we judge that on the outside. It's the whole story of the book of Job. And so many of the other stories that appear in the scriptures, because it's a difficult pill to swallow, really, when we when we see that happen, and we don't understand it.

Sister Maxine  
But when it happens to us, then good things happen to good people.

Sister Shannon  
That's exactly right.

Sister Maxine  
Now somebody in one of the tweets, they mentioned the year of Jubilee.

Sister Shannon  
Yeah, you can find that in the book of Leviticus. I'm sorry, I don't have the chapter in my head right now. But you can find it there. And it's at the end of 49 years. So seven years of seven, you know, they love those sevens in the biblical literature. Then slaves are freed, the land is left to be fallow -- the recognition just like our seven days of the week, and we rest on the Sabbath, the land is to rest, and all debt is to be forgiven in the Jubilee Year. In a way, it's kind of like wiping the slate clean and starting fresh. We still celebrate that in the Catholic Church, not in the exact same way as it's indicated in Leviticus, but special celebrations on the 25th and 50th years, within a century, opening of the Holy Doors and basilicas throughout the world and a recognition of the great gift that God is to us.

Sister Maxine  
Now there's also a passage -- and I came upon it, I think it was in Deuteronomy -- and it talks about Jubilee. But it says, you know, creditors shall remit all claims on loans -- I wrote it down -- made to a neighbor, not pressing the neighbor, one who is kin because Lord's permission has been proclaimed. You may press a foreigner, but you shall remit the claim on what your kin owes to you." So I was like struggling a little with that, Shannon. Don't take it out on your family, forgive them. But somebody you don't know, go and press them for it.

Sister Shannon  
There's quite a bit of that in the Old Testament Scriptures, coming out of a social structure that we hope we've improved on over the centuries, I think. And there's that tendency to want to protect your own. I can say something about my brother, if I'm upset with him, but don't you talk about my brother. It's that sort of attitude toward protection of the family or protection of those close by.

Sister Maxine  
Well, and plus, they're gonna see their family members -- I was gonna say Christmas, but at that point in history not so much. So that that kinship bond, like you're saying, and the awareness: you're going to see these people over and over and over again.

Sister Shannon  
Sure. And that shouldn't be your only motivation. And the motivation ought to come out of generosity and kindness. And it shouldn't matter if someone's a stranger or not. Think of the story of the Good Samaritan, the Samaritan that stops to help a Jew, and they were alienated in society. And yet, he doesn't see that cultural background when he stops to help somebody that's in trouble. I think that's really the message of the Scripture is to take us beyond ourselves, beyond our petty differences, beyond our limitations and our lack of forgiveness, and continue to help us to grow in kindness and generosity with one another.

Sister Maxine  
So for Julie, in Wyoming, who had some ambivalence about that, would you say, embrace, embrace the Scripture, embrace the Bible?

Sister Shannon  
I would. And I think about the Our Father that we say, all the time, "Forgive us our debts, as we forgive those who have trespassed against us." There's this mutuality that's involved in forgiveness, and it does something for both parties.

Sister Rejane  
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This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.